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Looks like the council is still stuck in the middle ages!
What exactly has the Middle Ages got to do with killing unborn babies?
The connection is hardly obvious!
Killing babies??By middle ages I mean no rights for the mother in a horrible situation. I dont think any legislation is going to say that a woman can have an abortion whenever she wants. But what if, like hundreds of women from Ireland who have concieved wanted children that for no fault of their own would not live past birth, were forced to the UK for a termination. If the child was not going to live why should the child, mother and family suffer?? Its just what I think
passing the death penalty for even one unborn baby is wrong since when does a mother have a right or government to pass legislation to kill unborn children? every time a unborn child is brutalised & torn from his /her mother it suffers a horrific death there is nothing gentle about abortion. If you pricked your finger would you feel it most sure u would, if you lost your Father Mother Husband Wife sister brother would you feel it most sure you would the same should be allowed for the death of an infant through natural causes the natural process of grieving, heals a lot quicker than having to live with the fact we killed and passed legislation to murder our our unborn children Wonder what it would be like to have a tooth pulled without a injection would we feel it I think for sure we would. Same is said for babies who are killed by abortion do they feel most Sure they Do when they are torn cut extracted from their mothers and disposed like garbage wake up and smell the coffee the DEATH of even ONE unborn Child through ABORTION is morally and ethically wrong
What has this got to do with the “County Council” anyway? This is NOT their area, it is an issue for the TD’s.
Rena Donaghey….please comment on
That’s what you SHOULD be doing instead of commenting and voting on an issue that is well outside your area.
Lisa I think you are stukck in the middle ages when they knew twit about fetal development!!
Im stuck in the middle ages because I believe in rights for a mother and the well being of a child?? I dont believe in abortion as a contraceptive but I do believe in it when after birth the child will suffer. When all of you become pregnant and end up in a situation like that you may understand then, but because you are either men or women who have already had their children or want children you cant.
Abortion belongs in the dark ages! Fair play to them! Great to see public representatives making an effort to protect the most vulnerable in society.
fair play to them! people are all too quiet in standing up for what is right
They can afford to be sanctimonious while
our old friend”John Bull” provides for those who require a termination.One could guess that the same councillors opposed contraception
and followed the Haughey line “an Irish solution etc.”
Congratulations to Donegal County Council for their independent and civilised decision. Once the prohibition of abortion is confirmed here, Ireland should be a constructive voice in the defence life abroad as well. Just because insanity is legal in others countries, doesn’t mean we should legalise it here.
why would mother’s have abortion
I think it’s time catholic Ireland moved with the times, I don’t endorse abortion as a contraceptive method.
however having watched a very moving late late show this year which featured heartbroken women, who told their own stories on how each and everyone of them was advised by Irish doctors, at the specialist maternity hospitals to travel to England for abortions due to the complex severe medical complications of their pregnancys.
add this to the now technology dependant children who would not survive without advanced medical intervention who also spend most of their lives in hospital, before finally succumbing to pneumonia.
and I think we as women should be entittled to a choice if put in these circumstances without having to leave the country stay in a hotel etc after a medical procedure to remove a much wanted child has taken place for medical reasons!
Yes it is taking a life, which many believe we should not but it is not a decision taken lightly is is a very informed decision influenced by medical professionals and each time the abortion argument is shot down these poor woman will continue to suffer someone’s daughter, sister, wife who has to travel the journey of doom or continue to carry the child that will never be, placing her own health at risk!!
Very well said!
there is no reason good enough to kill another living human being…….esp. not an innocent child! the child is not a part of the womens body! Its not the childs fault! Murder is murder!
Good on Fianna Fail, sticking to their guns whether popular or not. You’ve got my vote
Glad to see Donegal women are not trusted to make their own decisions.
Donegal Co. Council members have done the County proud today. Well done to all concerned! Mary
How have they done the county proud? They have no power to enforce these view! Besides EU law supersedes Irish law, so how can you deny a would-be mother a right that is legally enforced? On a moral grounds you may protest, but one persons views should not be shoved down another’s throat. This is an obvious case of prejudice against those women that have (possibly through no fault of they’re own) conceived a unwanted child.
Upwards of 5000 women travel across the Irish Sea every year to have abortions. This adds massive amounts of distress to an already unpleasant situation. No-one wants to have an abortion, but sometimes it is the best option, despite what any Youth Defence whackjob will say. At present the law in Ireland only serves to price this option out of the reach of the poorest and most vulnerable in society, perpetuating an already skewed and vicious cycle of poverty and antisocial poorer classes.
From what I see, the loudest and most obnoxious anti-abortion voices are middle class, middle-aged, ultra-conservative catholic women. These are not the people affected by this law, and religion should never, ever affect the law of the land.
The lack of provision for abortion in Ireland has been deemed unconstitutional and we have been waiting 20 years for legislation to be passed. What are these idiots trying to do? It is not for them to pass a motion on this.
Yea, ok——–killing an innocent unborn developing baby is NEVER the best option–for the baby or the mother!!!! Post traumatic stress will be withthem for life—You never get over the fact that you killed your baby—-
It’s ill informed, scaremongering comments like this that ensure the women of Ireland will never be free to make their own choices.
While of course some women might experience PTSD after an abortion, it is a downright MYTH that it’s some sort of guaranteed symptom.
‘In the light of the substantial amount of evidence against the existence of Post Abortion Syndrome, it is perhaps surprising that the claim for PAS retains any credibility…Evidence from the research literature suggests that, in the aggregate, legal abortion of an unwanted pregnancy does not pose a psychological hazard for most women. They tend to cope successfully and go on with their lives. There is no credible evidence for the existence of a Post Abortion Syndrome’.
Internalised misogyny is NEVER the best option for a woman.
So a woman whose life is threatened by her pregnancy shouldn’t terminate it, because her dying is better than suffering that loss? That’s an incredibly personal decision to make, you can’t possibly say that it is NEVER the best option, because it depends entirely on the woman.
YOU may never get over the fact … don’t presume to speak for women everywhere. You don’t know their circumstances and you don’t know what is right for them at a very difficult time. All that is being asked for is the option available for those who might consider it. How dare you wade in mistaking your own opinions for moral absolutes. Don’t agree with abortion? Don’t have one.
Disgraceful behaviour. A startling lack of empathy for women who lives are threatened by their pregnancy, particularly when our constitution says women in such circumstances have the right to an abortion. Incredibly disappointed.
What an embarassment. They need to cop themselves on a bit, the fact we have no abortion in this country is a disgrace.
What a completely backwards move.
7 abstained… That is the problem with this debate. There is a perception to legislating for abortion in particular circumstances is unpopular with the electorate but the fact is that the majority of people agree with human rights based rulings that we must legislate for x and c and consider alternatives when a fetus is considered incompatible with life (or however you phrase it). Its the fanatical bullyboy tactics of the anti-choice movement that prevent politicians and even individuals in the public from stating their true feelings. Have you have tried to politely engage Youth Defense in a debate around abortion? You would have to consider your own personal and emotional well-being before you did. Colette Brown in the Examiner really nailed it I think when she said that the anti-choice lobbies concern for human life doesn’t stretch beyond the point of birth.
Abortion involves the termination of a human life i.e. murder. That is an irrefutable truth no matter how inconvenient it may be for some people’s agenda.
Well done Donegal. People aren’t truly aware of the horror of the abortion procedure. If they really knew, they would be totally opposed to abortion. People feel sick when you describe the actual medical steps used to terminate a pregnacy.
Luckily ive never had to have a termination. I support termination for medical reasons and really think another womans womb is her own business.
hooray Donegal!! Fight the good fight, for life and for the next generation of Irish! We love our babies!
How is this a fight for life when it doesn’t allow a woman whose life is threatened by her pregnancy to have an abortion?
Thank you for speaking up for the unborn.If only others took your lead
Nice to see that yet again these rable -rousing despots discussing matters which they hold neither responsibility nor authority over……best not to upset the masses I suppose… Secularization not moralization!
I can’t believe the dickensian attitudes of these people. Stuck in the middle ages? More like the dark ages. They do NOT represent me.
A tide of evil has swept in and abortion advocates lead the way. I hope the selfish, cruel and godless wretches can be guided back to goodness
Ad hominem. Try again. It’s not selfish to want legislation for constitutional rights. It’s not selfish to want to give women a choice. It is selfish to force your point of view on others.
I salute them for this, although the EU wont like it, no intelligent woman in this day and age needs to get pregnant if they dont want to, thats right it is not the dark ages, intelligent people have the means now not to get pregnant but alas they do and punish some one else for their own stupidity.
Nice misogyny. Maybe you could get a place on the council?
No contraceptive method is 100% effective. Contraception is also not free, so not all women have access to it. Abstinence-only teaching leads to higher rates of STIs and crisis pregnancies. So no, it’s not always entirely possible to prevent pregnancy.
When male county councillors can become pregnant then and only then should then should they be even allowed to discuss abortion. The same goes for all the men who commented here praising the councillors for their decision. I believe it’s a woman’s right to choose because ultimately they will have to live with the consequences of any decision they make.
For it or against it …. dosent matter because the EU will makes the decision for us anyway. If not then there is dear old UK to do it for us. Typical FF trying to get votes yet again.
Stunning lack of empathy for women in the above quotes by the way.
Agree with you EU will rule its not about lack of empathy for women it is never right to kill an unborn child no matter what the circumstances Ireland is the safest country in the world for a mother to give birth situations circumstances are never put right by murder a spade is still a spade no matter what way one dresses it up
Yes, well done for not trusting women to decide what’s best for them! God forbid we give them freedom, no, that wouldn’t do at all!
I really don’t have much of a problem with people who waste their time praying to one or other imaginary friend. It would obviously be better all round for them to devote that time, energy and, of course, money, working on the problems that exist in this life, rather than worrying about some non-existent after-life but, so be it.
What I have a very serious problem with is when all that religious clap-trap affects my life. I believe that, so long as it causes me no physical or economic harm, people should, by and large, be allowed to with their lives and bodies what they wish.
I will now attempt to explain why Donegal Council did what it did. It will, I hope, also explain why we are still ruled not by our elected representatives, but from Vatican City.
The following are some Roman Catholic church rules:
Canon Law 22 states, “Civil laws to which the law of the Church yields are to be observed in canon law with the same effects, insofar as they are not contrary to divine law and unless canon law provides otherwise”. This is, of course, at the heart of the whole paedophilia scandal. That is to say that the “laws” made up by the men of the Roman Catholic church, along with those that are magically received – presumably through their funny hats – from their version of god, are, in their own parallel universe, somehow superior to any State’s legislation.
Canon Law 750.1 says, of Roman Catholics, “A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.”
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, at 1959, states,”The natural law, the Creator’s very good work, provides the solid foundation on which man can build the structure of moral rules to guide his choices. It also provides the indispensable moral foundation for building the human community. Finally, it provides the necessary basis for the civil law with which it is connected, whether by a reflection that draws conclusions from its principles, or by additions of a positive and juridical nature”.
Canon Law 223.1-2 states, “In exercising their rights, the Christian faithful, both as individuals and gathered together in associations, must take into account the common good of the Church, the rights of others, and their own duties toward others” and, “In view of the common good, ecclesiastical authority can direct the exercise of rights which are proper to the Christian faithful”.
Canon Law 915 states, “Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion”.
So, those are some of rules. But what of our good old Roman Catholic politicians, our legislators? Well, look no further than the ‘Doctrinal Note on some questions regarding
The Participation of Catholics in Political Life’ written by, you guessed it, one Joey Ratzinger and published in November 2002. [http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html]
Key amongst the Roman Catholic drivel contained in this document are the following passages:
Following on from, “A kind of cultural relativism exists today, evident in the conceptualization and defence of an ethical pluralism, which sanctions the decadence and disintegration of reason and the principles of the natural moral law”, the document states, “Such relativism, of course, has nothing to do with the legitimate freedom of Catholic citizens to choose among the various political opinions that are compatible with faith and the natural moral law, and to select, according to their own criteria, what best corresponds to the needs of the common good”.
“…it must be noted also that a well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law which contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals”.
This last one is a bit long but it really brings out what the Roman Catholic church is ordering its members – including Irish politicians – to do.
By its interventions in this area, the Church’s Magisterium does not wish to exercise political power or eliminate the freedom of opinion of Catholics regarding contingent questions. Instead, it intends – as is its proper function – to instruct and illuminate the consciences of the faithful, particularly those involved in political life, so that their actions may always serve the integral promotion of the human person and the common good. The social doctrine of the Church is not an intrusion into the government of individual countries. It is a question of the lay Catholic’s duty to be morally coherent, found within one’s conscience, which is one and indivisible. «There cannot be two parallel lives in their existence: on the one hand, the so-called ‘spiritual life’, with its values and demands; and on the other, the so-called ‘secular’ life, that is, life in a family, at work, in social responsibilities, in the responsibilities of public life and in culture. The branch, engrafted to the vine which is Christ, bears its fruit in every sphere of existence and activity. In fact, every area of the lay faithful’s lives, as different as they are, enters into the plan of God, who desires that these very areas be the ‘places in time’ where the love of Christ is revealed and realized for both the glory of the Father and service of others. Every activity, every situation, every precise responsibility – as, for example, skill and solidarity in work, love and dedication in the family and the education of children, service to society and public life and the promotion of truth in the area of culture – are the occasions ordained by providence for a ‘continuous exercise of faith, hope and charity’ (Apostolicam actuositatem, 4)». Living and acting in conformity with one’s own conscience on questions of politics is not slavish acceptance of positions alien to politics or some kind of confessionalism, but rather the way in which Christians offer their concrete contribution so that, through political life, society will become more just and more consistent with the dignity of the human person.
In summary, it is crystal clear that the Roman Catholic church is ordering its members, who are politicians – legislators – to vote only in accordance with the church’s teachings. They are also required to act in the church’s interests and, of course, if they disobey, they can look forward to excommunication and being barred from holy communion. Now, that last bit isn’t going to bother too many non-Catholics, especially atheists, but Paddy the TD from Ballygobackwards in Donegal is certainly not gong to risk eternal damnation and, even worse, a fall in No. 1s in the next election, by voting in favour of legislation that supports anything that the Vatican doesn’t want him to, irrespective of the wishes of the people.
Congratulations and thank you to all our wonderful Councillors who approved this Motion. You’ve done your County proud and you’ve won my vote.
Google ‘HEK 293′.
Brilliant!!! I am so proud that they have decided to maintain their morality! Hopefully it stays that way- babies are not “choices”.
Thank you for taking the time and being there to cast your votes for the ‘Voiceless’. As we are aware the female population worldwide is dwindling due to sex selection in many countries. There are many speaking out for animail rights WHAT ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS?. The basic right to life of HUMANS NEED PROTECTION.
No one knows another persons reasons or circumstances for their actions. For every one who has posted a comment here I’ll quote from a song” Walk a mile in my shoes”. Then offer an opinion.
Well said, not one of us has the right to tar all woman the same! thank you.
maybe some have walked in their shoes, ever think of that
I fail to see how Dáil business is relevant in the council chamber. Get back to your usual nonsense wanes!
Thank you Donegal co.co. for your defence of the defenceless baby in the womb – I really appreciate it and you make me proud to be a Donegal women.
Its interesting that on the very day that David Steele’s rule of abortion was introduced in Britain in 1967 a law was enacted for the protection of goldfish in that country. You couldn’t make it up. Thank you Donegal.You are leading the world in promoting the right to life!
As a former “unwanted pregnancy”, a baby who would have been “better off terminated” due to my birth mother’s severe addiction to and during-pregnancy use of heroin, cocaine and alcohol, I think I can safely say that NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, should EVER have the right to predetermine the value and worth of a life barely begun. I was born with a host of expected complications; I have never had A SINGLE health or psychiatric issue from birth on. Adopted by a loving caring family, I am now 24, happily married and with a daughter of my own. My birth mother told me when I met her 4 years ago that despite her plethora of personal issues she knew that killing her child, a child that had no connection to the trauma and issues surrounding her conception and birth, was wrong. If something is wrong, it is wrong extraneous of the issues that surround it. There is no such thing as subjective or relative morality, either in the case of abortion or in cases of child molestation, rape, murder etc. I was born to an Irish birth mother in a country that permits abortion. 1.6 million children were “terminated” in the year I was born: I am one of the lucky ones that survived despite the many “good reasons”… mental health of the mother, unwanted pregnancy, unlikelihood of a successful full term delivery, not to mention all the birth defects and issues I was absolutely certain to be born with… that I should have been killed. Thank God for people like those in the Donegal c.c who protect people like me.